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Me ia demanda ce nos nesesa per ave la Vici e la responde ia es:

I would also like to confirm the time that a Wiki has to stay on Incubator before final approval. I am adding articles every day and I remember that for the Jamaican Patois one the time was two or three months of continuous work. Is that the amount of time? We have already finished traslating all the messages needed so I presume that it is just a matter of time.
The definition is "at least 3 active editors (they can be different each month, but it should continuously be 3) for the course of at least several months", which means at least 3 months (but the committee has some leeway in its decision).

Nos debe es tre scrivente per tre menses per ave la Vici, me crede ce nos pote fa lo. --Chabi (talk) 22:57, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

  • Me regrete ce tota mea tempo libre a presente es ocupada con prepara la disionario per primi. Me ia regarda corta la mesajes traduida: los conteni alga gramatica vea ("ce" per "cual") e speles vea (privadia, relateda). Simon
    • Esta mesajes pote es cambiada an pos la crea de la Vicipedia. No ave problema, la disionario es plu importante ca la Vicipedia, e pos es editada, tu ta pote aida en la Vicipedia (an scrivente un article peti cada dia o cada semana es bon). --Chabi (talk) 10:24, January 29, 2017 (UTC)
    • A, bon – me pote probable fa acel. Simon
  • Me ia ajunta la model a tota la paises. Me va atenta no crea articles nova e me va ajunta informa a aceles ce ja esiste per ave plu cualia. Me ia parla con un manejor e ia dise a me ce nos debe ave articles plu grande en loca de plu cuantia (nos ave 1543 articles). Me va demanda en un semana per vide si nosa Vici ta pote es aprobada. Me grasia a totas, spesial a Simon, per vosa aida. --Chabi (talk) 09:33, May 16, 2017 (UTC)

Me ia demanda sur la aprova de la Vici e la responde ce me ia reseta es esta:

I can nudge the LangCom a little. But I need to tell you: I set my project to Wp/lfn, then hit ten random pages, and they were all stubs. LangCom is going to be reluctant to approve a project that is all stubs. Try to focus in the next little while on making the pages you have more complete, rather than just creating more stubs. I don't know how long to suggest—another month, maybe. At this point it's not so much "how many pages" or "how many contributors", though you need to keep those things up. It's that LangCom is going to want to see a decent percentage of pages with substantial content.

Me va atenta ajunta plu informa a la articles ce ja esiste. --Chabi (talk) 22:11, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

La responde cual tu ia reseta indica la problem fundal de esta projeta. La crea de un bon ensiclopedia es un labora vasta, enorme, jigante! E la fato es ce elefen no ave un cuantia sufisinte de parlores fluente (e interesada par la taxe) per reali lo con cualia alta. Lo no sufisi ce on prende testo de la vicipedia espaniol e ajunta mal traduis de lo. An si vicipedia ta aseta nos, la resulta ta es an plu labora per continua la projeta. Me deveni sempre plu depresada par la idea. (O cisa mea problem es ce me emprende personal tro multe taxes :-) En pasa, me vide ce la plu de pajes en la vicipedias ido, interlingua e lojban es jermes (stubs). Simon

Me va lasa crea nova articles e ajunta informas a la article ce nos ja ave. Cuando nos ia crea la Vicipedia en jamaican, multa articles ia es jermes, e los ia no ave problemes. --Chabi (talk) 08:29, April 26, 2017 (UTC)

Jamaican ave plu ca 3 milion parlores. Elefen ave min ca 300. Me es serta ce la comites de vicipedia considera tal fatos en sua judis. Simon

Mea idea es ce nosa vici ta debe ave plu cualia e per esta me va lasa crea articles nova car nos ja ave plu ca 1000 articles.´Me va ajunta nova informa. --Chabi (talk) 21:34, May 16, 2017 (UTC)
I totally understand your frustration and dissappointment regarding the situation of our Wikipedia but it will just take a bit longer. I will try to focus on just one article: to improve it and add quality content to it so that we could present it as a featured one. As it is no longer a problem of quantity but of quality, working in this way will also allow you to finish correcting the remaining articles. Chabi (talk) 22:44, May 16, 2017 (UTC)
My problem is that I'm a perfectionist (not recommended!) and I can see no point in promoting a bad encyclopedia. It feels like opening a new shop full of broken goods. Esperanto's Wikipedia doesn't give me hope: it has far more people working on it, but yet still manages to be appallingly badly written, with people apparently translating sentences word-for-word from their native languages. A few weeks ago, you said the Wikipedia administrator told you that the main problem is that most of our articles are stubs; if you take just one or two articles and improve their quality, that will still leave the same problem. And if we do get the thumbs-up from Wikipedia, you and I (and perhaps the occasional short-lived helper) will be left struggling to maintain a live encyclopedia. It will rapidly get out of date and look silly (in the same way that the country pages currently look silly because they tell us what the population was twelve years ago, which is when they were added into the earliest Elefen wiki). You seem to have a fabulous amount of time to spend on Elefen (are you retired?) – but I have to fit it in around my many other activities, so (sadly!) can't devote nearly as much time to it as I would like. Simon
  • A few weeks ago, you said the Wikipedia administrator told you that the main problem is that most of our articles are stubs; if you take just one or two articles and improve their quality, that will still leave the same problem. I am sorry because maybe I didn't make it clear, what I meant is that I will be improving ALL 1,000 articles little by little. That's why I won't be creating any new one. It will take time, but I think it is worth it.
  • It will rapidly get out of date and look silly (in the same way that the country pages currently look silly because they tell us what the population was twelve years ago, which is when they were added into the earliest Elefen wiki). That's a problem every single Wikipedia has (and even those for languages widely spoken). However, is that's an issue, we can add the year on the template (Population xxx (2007)) or, if that really bothers you, we can get rid of it, whatever you prefer and add a simple template with data that doesn't change (capital, type of government, official languages, internet code).
    • adding the year sounds like the best idea. also, it seems odd to keep that sort of information in the body of the text. things like population should only be in the templates. jorj
  • You seem to have a fabulous amount of time to spend on Elefen (are you retired?) - No, I am not, but I try to take time from every free moment I have. I now you are busy mainly with the dictionary and correcting text on the Incubator, that's why I am translating literature and I will try to improve already existing articles. I will put a template ({{en contrui}}) on the only article I will be writing on. The reason why I put so much interest on this Wikipedia project is because is an invaluable advertisement for the language. You cannot imagine the amount of people we can make LFN known just by having a Wikipedia. That's the reason why I put son much time on it. Don't worry about once is approved, let's focus ourselves on get it approved.
    • I hope you can keep working on it. When I tried to get lfn approved many years ago, we almost had enough support, but they told us we needed an SIL abbreviation. When we got that, they told us it wasn't enough, and suggested Wikia. jorj
    • one thing you should make clear is that although you are the main contributor to the incubator wiki, many of the articles were originally authored by others and were moved from our wiki. that way they won't think that we don't have many editors/authors. here are some stats for the wiki: jorj
      • >10,000 edits - 3 editors
      • 1,000 to 9,999 edits - 5
      • 100 to 999 edits - 14
      • 1 to 99 edits - 29
      • to 9 edits - 16
      • since 1-1-2017 - 17 editors
      • 3794 pages
        • 10,000 - 100,000 bytes - 254
        • 5000 - 10,000 bytes - 192
                  • I know but they don't care about that, what is important for them is the amount of editors that are currently working on the project. We need a minimum of three.

I am also taking the opportunity to thank you for all your work, without your help this wouldn't be possible. I totally understand your frustration, but let's try to get it done. Thanks again. Chabi (talk) 11:26, May 17, 2017 (UTC)

Me ia crea otra model per la paises plu jeneral, con informas ce no cambia. tu pote vide lo asi. Esce tu prefere esta model? Tal nos pote lasa lo e no va nesesa fa cambias plu tarda. --Chabi (talk) 08:34, May 18, 2017 (UTC)

  • Me no ia atende multe tua ativia sur modeles (pardona!), donce me no es serta con cual otra model tu vole ce me compara esta nova. Ma me ia visita la paje Bielarus (un esemplo acaso) e sua caxa pare conteni plu informas ca tua model nova. Simon
  • Yes, I know, the difference is that the new one has fixed pieces of information (no names of governors, no GDP, no population figures) because those are the ones who become outdated. That's a way of solving the problem abovementioned (It will rapidly get out of date and look silly (in the same way that the country pages currently look silly because they tell us what the population was twelve years ago, which is when they were added into the earliest Elefen wiki) I believe. --Chabi (talk) 13:22, May 18, 2017 (UTC)
  • I see what you're saying, now. Yes, that makes sense. Over the last few months, I haven't really been looking at the contents of the infoboxes. I was becoming more concerned by the fact that the bodies of the country articles say things like "La cuantia de abitores en 2006 ia es sirca 12345678 persones" — where it's also a bit crazy to say "sirca" ("approximately") followed by an impossibly exact number! It would certainly make sense to move raw statistics like this over to the infobox instead. Simon
  • On a related matter, I find it strange that Wikipedia tends to cram as much information as possible into the first sentence of an article, typically in a clumsy lengthy bracket before the sentence has even reached the word "is". I see this tendency starting to appear in the Elefen articles, too, e.g. at Albert Einstein. Surely a person's birth and death dates belong in an infobox, or could be presented in a second full sentence: "El ia nase a 14 marto 1876 en Ulm en Deutxland, e ia mori a 18 april 1955 en Princeton, SUA." (Also, it doesn't make sense to explain the pronunciation of "Princeton" in the Einstein article: it should be in the Princeton article.) Etymologies are often top-heavy in a similarly awkward way, e.g. at Economia. The first sentence should define "economy"; the etymology is a minor detail, and can surely wait until a later paragraph or section. However, since top-heavy articles are so prevalent on Wikipedia, I assume there's an editorial decision to prefer them. I'd be fascinated to know the reasoning. Simon
    • I completely agree. Those over-full intros drive me crazy. A short intro to the subject is far better. Also, any information sufficiently important to go into the main body of the text should be presented in complete sentences and in context. And simple things like numbers should go in the template. jorj

Sorry, now I don't know what should we do. Which country template should we keep? The one with the population, governors and GDP data or the one without it? I really don't mind using one or the other, I'm fine with anyone. But if we use the one with that data probably won't be updated so if you don't like it we'd better use the simpler one. Chabi (talk) 17:40, May 18, 2017 (UTC)

  • It's a very difficult question! Populations and governors are typical of the sort of thing people use Wikipedia to look up, so they need to be included; but there's no point in including them if they're inevitably going to get out of date. This is the main reason I seldom consult the Esperanto Wikipedia, even though I speak Esperanto fluently – I can't trust the accuracy of the content. It's a pity Wikipedia doesn't store these basic facts about people and things in a single central database, with each language then extracting and formatting the data into the relevant articles. I know I haven't answered your question, but I honestly don't know what the answer is. Perhaps you should decide, based on your experience with the Jamaican Wikipedia. Simon
    • again, I think including dates for those kinds of data would be sufficient. jorj
      • Hi jorj, thanks for your comment. The issue with dates is that some data for population is from 2004 for instance so it wouldn't be that accurate. Shall we then keep the population but adding a date Simon? Also, how about GDP and governors? Maybe GDP we can add a date and take out the information about the governors? Regarding the central database, indeed, Wikipedia has one: Wikidata. But I am afraid I am not proficient enough to create a template using that kind of data. Latin Wikipedia does it and I presume that's the way of being accurate, however, as aforementioned, I wouldn't be able to do it. Thanks for your feedback :) --Chabi (talk) 19:41, May 18, 2017 (UTC)
      • Very interesting about Wikidata: as you can tell, I had no idea that even existed. It looks extremely thorough… and hellishly complicated. Anyway, having read Jorj's arguments above, I agree that adding a date to the population is the best we can do for now. GDP with date would be good, too. I think we have to discard the governor information. We should concentrate on articles we can do well — those that consist mainly of unchanging or historical facts. Simon
      • Module:Wikidata isn't available on the incubator, so we couldn't use it even if we wanted to. There's a small amount of documentation about how to use it, if we ever wanted to. Simon
  • By the way, where is the page of recent changes for just the Elefen WP? I think I found it once by accident a couple of months ago, but didn't bookmark it, and have never found it again. Simon

If you log in, you can see on the top right corner of your browser different tags (your user name, discussion page, preferences, etc.). You click on preferences, and on the page that appears, under the title Internationalisation, select:

  • Lingua Franca Nova on Lingua tab
  • Wikipedia on the Test Wiki tab
  • lfn on Test Wiki Language

Click on accept at the bottom of the page.

Now you will see that on the left-hand side of your browser (where recent changes appears)

  • Excellent! Many thanks for your help. Simon

LeonardoEdit

Me es corente (lenta) tradui la article de Leonardo da Vinci de engles a elefen. Esce mea tradui es oce? Me debe continua esta o tradui otra articles? Angel

  • Continua! La tradui no es mal, ma conteni alga eras. Me va coreti los en la incubador, e me va esplica alga de los asi, per aida tua comprende. Simon
    • Tu ia omete "ia" ante multe verbos en la raconta.
    • "Polimata" no esiste. Nos usa "erudita".
    • "la areas de interesa de ci" — "whose X" es normal "de ci sua X". Lo es plu fasil per leje. Simil "de ci cada" en loca de "cada de ci".
    • "nomida variosa" — la ordina de la du parolas nesesa es reversada (tu ia scrive "namedly various"), e "diversa" es plu bon ca "variosa" en multe casos. "Variosa" sinifia "full of variety", "full of variations", ma "various" en engles sinifia comun mera "miscellaneous" o "a number of different" o "several".
    • "es considerada comun un de" — Personal, me prefere usa "regarda" en loca de "considera"/"vide" cuando "is considered" indica un opina jeneral. "Considera" sinifia "esamina par pensa", no "opina". E on nesesa ajunta "como" ("es comun regardada como un de"), car la strutur "they elected me president", "I find the wine horrible", "we consider you a friend" no esiste en elefen.
    • "cada tempo" es "each quantity of time". "All time" es "tota (la) tempo".
    • La plural "algunes" no esiste.
    • "atribui el con" — La defini de "atribui" en la disionaro indica ce la ojeto (entre brasetas en la defini) es la cualia, no la person, donce on nesesa dise "atribui … a el".
    • "la metodos empirical el ia usada" — On no pote omete "cual", an si on tende omete "that/which" en tal frases en engles.
    • "Pos," — Esta es un averbo ("poste" en esperanto), e nos dise "a pos" per clari esta en elefen.
    • "François I de Frans" — Nos prefere evita numeros roman, car los es min internasional. Scrive "François 1 de Frans" en loca.
    • "la plu reproduida depinta relijial" — Per alga razona, multe persones era cuando los tradui "the most". "Reproduced" es un ajetivo, donce lo debe segue la nom, e "most" esije ce on repete "la" (car "plu" sin "la" sinifia "more"). La resulta coreta es "la depinta relijial la plu reproduida".
    • "ma ancora" — "Ancora" es un parola de tempo. "Still" en engles pote sinifia ance "however", "nonetheless", per cual la espresa la plu comun en elefen es "an tal" (even so).
    • "competeada" — La verbo "rival" manca en la disionario, ma "egali" (become an equal) pare conveni. ("Competeda" pare bizara, car la verbo "compete" es nontransitiva; un person competeda ta es un person ci on ia compete, pd on ia fa ce la person compete.)
    • "Esta ta produi" — "Would" es enganosa en engles. Lo ave multe sinifias diferente, e "ta" representa sola la sinifia ipotesal. En multe casos, "would" indica la futur de la pasada = "was going to". Ma en esta frase, lo es mera un modo complicada de espresa la tempo pasada.
    • "en sua bebia" — Me pensa ce "in their infancy" es un idiom engles. An si la metafor es relativa clar, lo pare alga strana (car tecnicas siensal es nunca bebes). Ta ce on trova un otra manera de espresa la idea.
    • "entra la mundo nonespetada" — Prima, on entra a un loca. Du, "nonespetada" descrive la modo de entra, no la mundo, donce lo debe apare direta pos "entra".
    • "ave influe direta sur siensa" — "Have" es multe usada en tal espresas en engles, ma min en otra linguas. "Have influence on" sinifia no plu ca "influence": "influe la siensa".
    • "nase la 15 april 1452" — Per indica datas, usa "a" (normal sin "la": nos trata "15 april 1452" como un formula spesial, sin "la" e sin "de".)
    • "la site de Vinci", "la vileta de Anchiano" — Nos omete "de" en tal espresas, car la site no parteni a Vinci: lo es Vinci! Simil: "la mense maio", no "la mense de maio", e multe otras.
    • "ia indica ce la padre de Leonardo ia es un senior" — La regula per tal frases es ce en la frase reportada ("ce el es un senior") on usa la mesma tempo como si on ta dise direta: "el es un senior". Esta es importante sola cuando la verbo xef ("indica") es pasada: en engles, nos dise "it indicated that he was…", ma a la tempo de la indica mesma, el es un senior, donce en elefen (como en multe otra linguas) nos dise "ia indica ce el es un senior". "Ia es" asi ta sinifia "it indicated that he had been". (Simil, "they said that they would come" es "los ia dise ce los va veni", car lo cual los ia dise es: "Nos va veni.")
    • "Pico es sabeda" — Plu simple: "on sabe poca". Deveni la ami de "on"! Lo pote crea frases multe plu fasil ca los con verbos pasiva cual infesta engles.
    • "e … e …" es bon per "both … and …", ma cuando la partes es longa, lo pote deveni alga nonclar per leje. En tal casos, me prefere dise "no sola … ma ance …"
    • "ia demanda per Ser Piero fa lo pintada per el" — Verbos infinitiva no funsiona tal en elefen. Tu debe usa "ce" e dise "ia demanda ce Ser Piero fa ce on pinti lo per el".
    • "ornada con un cor perforada con un flexa" — La flexa perfora la cor, donce la cor es perforada par la flexa. "Con" es ance posible, ma min clar — e lo es serta min bon en esta frase car tu ia usa ja "con" pos "ornada".
  • Me va continua doman, si tu vole. Ma tua tradui es vera eselente, an si me ia trova alga puntos pedante. (Me pote sempre trova puntos pedante, an en mea propre traduis pos la pasa de alga tempo :-) Simon
    • Multe grasias! Esta es un aida grande a me! Me ia deside tradui articles no sola per aida la incubador, ma ance per aprende elefen. :) Angel
    • Si, me ia suposa lo :) Me regrete ce nos no ofre materias plu bon per ensenia tal puntos (cual es eras comun de aprendores). Multe de la puntos apare ja en la gramatica, ma acel es un documento relativa formal e lo no asentua la locas do persones tende era. E alga de la puntos es mera stilal, per cual la solve refinada en elefen difere de engles. Cisa, a pos, nos pote edita esta lista e usa lo como la funda de un documento nova per aprendores engles. Serta on ave tal libros de eras comun en esperanto, e me ia es multe aidada par los cuando me ia aprende acel lingua. Simon
    • Esta es un idea multe bon! Tal un documento ta es multe usosa per me e per otra aprendores. :) Angel
  • Aora continuante: Simon
    • "un de la plu amirable en Firenze" — Lo es un de los (plural), donce vera on debe dise "la plu amirables" (o ajunta un nom plural: "un du la laborerias la plu amirable").
    • Un punto nongramatical: La du frases prima en la parte sur la laboreria de Verrocchio es strana editada en engles, e donce ance en tua tradui. Cada de la du pare crede ce lo es la frase prima sur Verrocchio, e ambos presenta lo como un person nova. On ta pote malcomprende ce "Andrea di Cione" e "Andrea del Verrocchio" es du persones diferente.
    • "la depintor e scultor fiorentin grado prima de sua tempo" — La testo engles dise "leading", e tu ia reconose coreta ce "gidante" no conveni per tradui esta. Ma la nom "grado prima" no pote es usada como un ajetivo, an si "first rate" funsiona tal en engles. "La plu importante" conveni. Ance "xef" o "major", cisa.
    • "ia va continua" — On no pote combina "ia" e "va". En esta frase, "ia" sufisi: lo es un plu esemplo de la usa complicada de "would" en engles. La mesma es vera en "Leonardo ta ia es esposada". En otra frases, do on vole refere a la futur de un momento pasada, on pote simple usa "va".
    • "ia stajiada o asosiada" — "Ia" presede un verbo simple: "la depintores ia asosia". On no usa lo en otra situas, como asi: "associated painters" es "depintores asosiada". Fundal, la fini "-ed" en engles pote deveni o "-da" o "ia" en elefen, ma no ambos.
    • "inclui" (including) — Per alga razona, multe persones scrive "inclui" en loca de "incluinte", e "eseta" en loca de "esetante". Pos alga frases, tu scrive ance "usa" en loca de "usante".
    • "esta es crededa es apocrifa" — Esta es un bon esemplo de la problem de tradui pasivas e infinitivas de engles. Nos dise "this is believed to be apocryphal" en engles, ma "on crede ce" es multe plu bela ca "esta es crededa" e lo permete ance ajunta la resta de la frase sin problem. "Esta es crededa es apocrifa" no es gramatical coreta; lo ta es la forma pasiva de "on crede esta es apocrifa", cual es ance nongramatical (car, como diseda a supra, la strutur "they elected me president" no esiste en elefen).
    • "Esamina curante" — "Cura" sinifia "care for" o "take care of" (on cura un malada o un cosa danada, per esemplo). "Careful" es usual "atendente" (paying attention). Cuando on comensa un frase con un nom verbal, me recomenda ajunta "un" o "la" per clari, car la lejor pote malcomprende la parola como un verbo de comanda: "Carefully examine!"
    • "ia es ajusta" — "ia es ajustada" ("were adjusted", not "were adjust"). Compara "me ajusta lo" (I adjust it), "me ia ajusta lo" (I adjusted it), "me es ajustante lo" (I am adjusting it), "me ia es ajustante lo" (I was adjusting it), "lo es ajustante" (it is adjusting), "lo ia es ajustante" (it was adjusting), "lo es ajustada" (it is adjusted), "lo ia es ajustada" (it was adjusted). "Ia es" es la verbo. "Ajustante/ajustada" es mera un ajetivo, simil a "bon" en "lo ia es bon".
    • "rieta de monte brun" — La cosa brun es la rieta, no la monte, donce nos dise "rieta brun de monte".
    • "an pos sua padre ia institui el" — "Before" e "after" pote es difisil. Los ave tre sinifias en engles, e elefen distingui la tre. Compara: "ante la come" (preposada: before the meal, antaŭ la manĝo), "ante cuando nos come" (conjunction: before we eat, antaŭ ol ni manĝas), "nos come a ante" (averbo: we eat before[hand], ni manĝas antaŭe). On nesesa considera esce "before/after" introdui un nom, un frase, o no cosa. En la tradui tu nesesa "an pos cuando sua padre ia institui el", car "sua padre ia institui el" es un frase.
    • "lo es no arcivo" — Per tradui "there is", usa "on ave".
    • "el ia parti la studio" — Entra a, parti de.
    • "La du" — Esta sinifia "the two". Per dise "the second (one)", on nesesa usa "numero" ("la numero du") o dise "la seguente" o simil.
    • "lira arjento" — La ajetivos "arjento" e "oro" refere a colores. Per espresa "made of silver/gold", on dise "de arjento/oro", esata como on dise "de bronze", "de lenio", etc.
    • "un letera sita frecuente" — Tu vole dise "un letera frecuente sitada" (frequently quoted).
    • "Leonardo ia comensa crea desinias per sua moldida" — "Sua" pare refere a Leonardo. Me sujesta "per la moldi de lo".
      • Me pensa ce esta es un debilia peti de "sua". Me gusta ce la pronomes en esperanto ave sua propre formas posesal ("mia, via, lia, ŝia, ĝia, ilia," e "sia") ma regretable esta es nonatural per linguas romanica. Angel
        • Me no desacorda, ma tal es la situa. Cuando "sua" ia es ancora "se", nos ia esperimenta con espresas como "el se obras", "lo se moldi", "Leonardo se macina de tempo", ma ultima los ia pare tro strana per resta en la gramatica. Simon
        • Si, me gusta multe "sua". Me ia studia elefen un pico en anios pasada (a sirca 2014 si me recorda coreta), e me prefere la forma corente de la lingua. En fato, me gusta spesial la ajunta de "sua". :) Angel
    • "cannon" — Lo es plural, an si engles no clari esta: "canones".
    • "Mapas ia es estrema rara a la ves" — "Ves" sinifia "one of the occasions on which a thing happens". Otra usas de "time" es simple "tempo". "Mapas ia es estrema rara en esta tempo."
    • "lo ia ta pare como un idea nova" — La frase no presenta un situa ipotesal, donce "ta" no conveni, an si engles dise "would have" per alga razona strana. Dise simple: "lo ia pare".
    • "un otra mapa" — Personal, me prefere dise "un plu mapa" o "un mapa nova". Me persepi un distingui (sutil!) entre "other = different" e "other = additional".
    • "suprapone" — La testo engles dise "overlay", ma esta es strana. Me pensa ce lo vole dise "overview" – vista.
    • "un parario de la mar a Firenze" — "From… to…" pote deveni plu clar si on cambia lo a usa "entre", car "de" sinifia plu comun "of". Prima, me ia leje "un parario de la mar" como "a sea dam". Donce: "un parario entre la mar e Firenze".
    • "tra cada saisones" — O "tra cada saison" (each season) o "tra tota saisones" (all seasons).
    • "El ia spende du anios desinia" — "el ia spende du anios en desinia". E "con Michelangelo desinia sua peso acompanial" — "desiniante". On usa paroletas como "en" e finis como "-nte" per texe un bon frase.
    • "El ia ta comensa" — "he may have commenced". Esta sinifia "Lo ia es posible ce el ia comensa", ma on pote corti esta par usa la parola "cisa": "el ia comensa cisa". "El ia ta comensa" sinifia "he would have commenced" (if something hadn't prevented him – but something did prevent him, so the idea of him commencing is hypothetical, an alternative world in which things turned out differently).
    • "ia resta en Milano longa" — La cosa longa es la resta, no Milano, donce on debe dise: "ia resta longa en Milano".
    • "cual pote pasea a ante e a pos abri sua peto" — La combina de "a ante e a pos" no es clar. Me ia suposa prima ce la leon debe pasea en du dirijes alternante. En fato, on pote omete "a pos" sin cambia la sinifia.
    • "El ia es donada la usa de la casa" — On ia dona la usa de la casa a el, donce la cosa donada ia es la usa de la casa. Ma tua frase dise ce la cosa donada es el. On pote dise "La usa de la casa ia es donada a el", ma "on" es tua ami: "On ia dona a el la usa de la casa." Un otra bon posible es "El ia reseta la usa de la casa."
    • "amada par la franses" — es plu ca un person: "la franseses".
    • "Melzi ia es la eritor xef e esecutor, reseta" — "Reseta" flota sin ancor. On nesesa dise "resetante", tal ce lo deveni un descrive de "ia es" (o de "eritor e esecutor" – la resulta es la mesma).
    • "efetos personal" — Un efeto es fundal "un cambia cual resulta de un ata o otra causa". "Personal effects" es un idiom strana par cual engles dise "posesedas personal".
    • "sua pupil" — "Pupil" es un parte de un oio. Tu vole "aprendor" asi.
    • "ci ia reseta dui de la viterias per cada" – "de ci cada ia reseta un dui de la viterias". Nota la usa de "un" ante "dui", car "dui" es un nom, no un numero. On dise "du viterias", ma "un dui de un viteria".
    • "Sirca 20 anios pos la mori" — Coreta, ma personal me prefere "A sirca…". La razona es ce me regarda la sinifia de "sirca" asi como "aprosima", descrivente la cuantia "20", e on ta debe dise "A aprosima 20 anios pos la mori" per ancori acel espresa a la resta de la frase. Ma on pote razona ance ce "sirca" es ja un modo de ancori un tal espresa de tempo.
    • La sita de François sur Leonardo es difisil per comprende en engles. Me suposa ce la frase ia es orijinal diseda en franses o italian. La sita apare ance en la article sur Leonardo en la vicipedia franses, ma lo pare ce on ia tradui lo de esta engles!
    • "un orijina de orgulo" — "un fonte de orgulo" es plu clar.
    • "sua desenio de 60" — Probable "sua desenio sete" es plu clar. "Desenio de 60" es bon per nomi la des anios entre 1960 e 1969.
    • "La Espulsa de Eden par Massaccio, representa Adam e Eva nuda e turbada, ia crea un imaje potiosa espresosa de la forma umana, mostra en tre dimensiones par la usa de claroscur." — Asi tu ave du verbos sin ancor a la resta de la frase: "representa" e "mostra". La verbo xef de la frase es "crea". Bon. Ma "representa" nesesa deveni "representante" per descrive "la Espulsa", e "mostra" debe es "mostrada" per descrive "un imaje potiosa".
    • "ia segue esta tradision cuando mostra distinguintes" — "Mostra" no es ancorida, e "while" asi no es un parola de tempo ("cuando") ma de contrasta. Me sujesta "ia segue esta tradision ma ia mostra…"
    • "plu vea de el" — "Than" es "ca".
      • Me demanda a me como me fa esta era strana, haha. Angel
    • "sua susede como un depintor ia es serti" — "Serti" es sin ancor: lo nesesa es "sertida".
    • "Los capas ia trae obras" — "They competently delivered commissions". La averbo debe segue la verbo (o es locada ante la frase intera): "Los ia trae capas obras".
    • "nunca ia completi" — Esta es mea culpa. Me ia pone "completi = become complete" en la disionario, cual es un paso nesesada per ateni la verbo transitiva "completi = complete, make complete". Ma la verbo nontransitiva es apena usada, car lo ave no corespondente en la linguas romanica. Lo pare alga nonatural. E vera, obras no deveni completa par se mesma: un artiste completi los. Donce me sujesta "ia es nunca completida". ("Los es fada" implica ce "on fa los".)

Fini.

Es oce si me usa la referes de la article engles en la article elefen, an si esta lias es en engles? Angel

  • Me opina ce si. Tradui cualce testo ensircante, cual no es un titulo o simil. Simon

Me demanda per pardona per mea cambias strana. Me ia atenta crea colonas per la referes, ma me ia fali. Angel

BelauEdit

Me ia fini tradui la article sur Belau. Lo nesesa referes ma me va ajunta los pico e pico. --Chabi (talk) 15:34, May 20, 2017 (UTC)

  • Lo es un tradui vera no mal, ma tu ia oblida pasa lo tra la spelador! Simon
    • "Avente votada" — "Pos vota" (after voting). Elefen no usa "ave" per formi tempos pasada.
    • "cuando los ia es sustituida" — On sustitui la nova per la vea, donce la nova es la sustituida. Asi on debe dise alga cosa como "cuando otras ia sustitui" (= ia deveni sustitua).
    • "judinte par sua lingua" — "Judging by" es un idiom engles. La metafor es bon, ma no la gramatica. Me sujesta "si on considera sua lingua".
    • "A pos la concista", "A pos la sentenio 16", e multe otras — Simple "pos": "after". "A pos" sinifia "afterwards", "at a later time": "la concista ia aveni a pos", "a pos, nos va selebra!"
    • "un sentenio plu tarda" — Asi, "later" sinifia "after": "pos un sentenio". Engles es vera difisil.
    • "Otra letera", "Otra barcon" — "Un otra letera", "Un otra barcon".
    • "La leteras ia resulta en tre atentas" — "Result in" es un espresa bizara engles. Lo sinifia "causa", "provoca", "ave como sua resulta" o simil.
    • "ia es enviada per salva los sola per inversa" — Noncomprendable sin refere a la testo engles. "Only to capsize" es un strutur idiomal; lo vole dise "ma ia … mera" o "ma ia fa no plu ca …"
    • "formante" — La nom es "un forma". Cuando un cosa prende un forma, lo "formi" (deveni un forma), e simil on "formi" un cosa. La verbo es "formi", donce on usa "forminte".
    • "Lo ia sinia un Trata" — "Sinia" es "sign" cuando esta sinifia un marca o sinial. "Sign a document" es "suscrive".
    • "comensa a es aplicada" — "A" no es nesesada. On comensa un taxe. On comensa fa un taxe.
    • "fante de Belau un pais autonom" — "Fa" es "do", no "make", estra en la strutur spesial "fa ce tu deveni felis" (make you happy), cual sinifia vera "do something so that you become happy". Asi, la tradui la plu simple es "cambiante Belau a un pais autonom".
    • "la lege ia es pasada" — On aseta un lege.
    • "consiste en" — La parola "consiste" no esiste. Dise "es composada de".
    • "varia milias a sude" — "a alga milias plu sude". E probable "cilometres" es plu clar per lejores internasional.
    • "contra ce" — Un "ma" o "e" sufisi jeneral. "Contra ce" asentua un contrasta forte.
    • "alga 604 cilometres de" — "some 604km from". Esta usa de "some" en engles es mera un modo de asentua la grandia de la cuantia. Me sujesta "no min ca".
    • "dispone de dejeta solida" — "Dispone" es "have available", "have at one's disposal". Esta "disposal" es cuasi la reversa de "disposal" en "disposal of solid waste", cual sinifia "dejeta", "desprende" (= no ave!)
    • "dolable a tremateras" — "Dolable" veni de "dole", e sinifa "able to be hurt". La tera no senti dole, donce lo no es dolable. Me sujesta "esposada".
    • "par 2020" — "by 2020" sinifia "ante la fini de 2020", "no plu tarda ca 2020". "Par" no sinifia esta.
    • "Junta" — es un verbo e un nom. Lo no sinifia "together". Per acel, usa "juntada" (joined) o "en junta" (in conjunction).
  • Plu, doman. Simon
    • "Resolve 963" — "Resolve" sinifia "separa a sua composantes". Un "resolution" de la Nasiones Unida es un "deside".
    • "Statos Unida", "SUA" — "La" es nesesada ante estas.
    • "la plu parte" — Esta es como "la plupart" en franses, ma en elefen lo sona strana, car "parte" (singular) no es mesurable par "plu" e "min". On pote ave "plu aira", ma no "plu libro" e no "plu parte". Per tradui "most aspects", "most people", "most years", etc, on pote eleje entre "la plu" e "la plu de": "la plu (de) aspetas", "la plu (de) persones", "la plu (de) anios". La "de" funsiona bon cuando on vole ajunta ance "la" o simil, como en "la plu de la aspetas cual on ia studia".
    • "ia es aprobada" — La testo engles dise "without being approved", cual sinifia ce lo no ia es aprobada. On dise "sin es aprobada" en elefen.
    • "en cuando ia es negosiante la Trata" — Engles ave "while negotiating the Treaty", ma la tradui dise "whle was negotiating the Treaty", cual es nongramatical. Per dise "while doing" en elefen, on dise simple "en fa": "en negosia la Trata". Compara "per negosia la Trata", "ante negosia la Trata", "pos negosia la Trata", "sin negosia la Trata" e otra espresas simil.
    • "fali en ateni" — "Fali" (e "susede") aseta direta la otra verbo, sin "en" o paroleta simil: "fali ateni".
    • "Belau ia anunsia ce ta aseta 17 uigures" — Du eretas asi. Prima, "ta aseta" nesesa un sujeto ("lo"). Esta es un difere grande entre elefen e espaniol: espaniol tende omete tal pronomes, indicante los par cambia la forma de la verbo en loca. Ma en elefen, la verbo no varia, donce on nesesa inclui la sujeto. Numero du, "ta" refere a un mundo ipotesal. Lo no coresponde a tota usas de "would" en engles. En esta caso ("Palau announced that it would accept"), la anunsia direta ia es "nos va aseta", e (car verbos elefen no dispone multe tempos) nos reteni esta tempo en la reporta pasada: "Belau ia anunsia ce lo va aseta".
    • "uigures ce ia es detenida" — "Cual", no "ce". "Ce" es usada sola per introdui la contenida de un dise, un pensa, o simil: "me desira ce tu aida me", "me vide ce tu es asi", "me no ia sabe ce el ia mori", etc. "Cual" es usada per introdui lo cual on nomi "relative clauses" en engles e "oraciones de relativo" en espaniol. Per vide clar la difere entre "ce" e "cual", considera esta duple:
      • La problem cual nos ave es la manca de aira. (La problemo, kiun ni havas, estas la manko de aero.)
      • La problem ce nos no ave aira es grave. (La problemo, ke ni ne havas aeron, estas grava.)
    • "Lo esiste grande numero de xineses e coreanes." — "Numero" es "a numeral in a sequence", como la numero de un paje, o un numero de telefon. Cuando "number" sinifia "quantity, amount" (un mesura), nos usa "cuantia".
    • "An plu peti grupos de laborores de Nepal e Bangladex e sua desendentes ci ia vade a fini de la sentenio 1900 pote es trovada." — Esta frase es difisil per leje, car la verbo "pote (es trovada)" es tan distante de la sujeto, e la testo interveninte es strutural complicada. Deveni la ami de "on"! "On pote trova grupos an plu peti …"
    • "eseta en du statos" — "Eseta" es un verbo e nom. Engles usa "except" ance como un preposada, ma esta no es posible en elefen. Dise o "esetante" o (plu simple) "estra" (cual es un preposada).
    • "lo esiste X" — No, dise o "on ave X" o "X esiste".
    • "ia es lasada vade" — "were allowed to go". On no pote pone un infinitiva direta pos un pasiva en esta modo. On debe dise o "ia es lasada a vade" (cual es gramatical coreta, ma pare ancora un tradui tro leteral de engles) o "on ia lasa ce los vade".
    • "tres veses a semana" — "a tre veses per semana".
    • "per proteje lo ce los ia pensa ta es la zonas economial libre" — "to protect what they deemed should be free economic zones". En frases como esta, la solve la plu bon es ajunta "sur cual" (about which): "per proteje la zonas sur cual los ia opina ce los debe es economial libre".
    • "xef e xefa" — "xefa" no es en la disionario. La forma ta es "xefesa" (car -a alterna con -o, e "xef" no fini con -o), ma nos prefere lasa ce "xef" es sin jenero, e dise "xef mas" e "xef fema" per distingui.
    • "Esta es perce Koror es la capital" — Tu ia confusa "perce" e "car". "Esta es perce" sinifia "this is why": "esta" es la razona cual esplica ce Koror es la capital. Ma "esta es car" sinifia "this is because": Koro es la capital, e "esta" es la resulta cual segue de acel.
    • "Sposi relativas" — "Relative" en engles pote sinifia o "relativa" (= nonasoluta) o "relatada" (= esistente en un relata). Per tradui "relatives" (persones de la mesma familia), nos usa "relatadas".
    • "tersiaria" — Esta es un terma tecnical de istoria jeolojial. "Tertiary education" sinifia "educa de universia", ja listada en la disionario como "higher education". Me ia ajunta "tertiary education" a lo.

Fini.

  • Me ia pasa la spelador! Ma me crede ce lo no coreta eras gramatical. Me usa parolas ce es bon en elefen ma con otra sinifia, per esta la spelador no coreti los.
    • La spelador no comprende la sinifias o la gramatica, serta. Ma lo trova la eras seguente: "espanio" (→ espaniol), "cautra" (→ catura), "formante" (→ forminte), "aprova" (→ aproba), "entro" (→ ?), "consiste" (→ ?), "pluviosa" (→ pluvosa), "dxef" (→ xef). Simon
    • Cisa la problem es ce la article conteni multe nomes propre cual la spelador no conose, e la eras vera deveni perdeda entre estas. Me recomenda ce tu eleje "Iniora parolas cual comensa con letera major" en la spelador: lo va lista ancora alga parolas stranjer como "aibebelau", ma la plu es vera malspeles o maltapes de parolas elefen. Simon

Me no comprende esta frase: La isolas ia ave un popla de pigmeos asta la sentenio 12, cuando otras ia sustitui.

Ma ta ajunta los (them) a fini. Per me, lo nesesa ave la pronome per dise a ci sustitui esta "otras".

  • La lojica es esta: La cosa nova es la sustitua per la vea. La nova deveni la sustitua per la vea. La nova sustitui per la vea. Me causa ce la nova sustitui per la vea. Me sustitui la nova per la vea. Donce "otras ia sustitui los" sinifia "others caused them to replace (something else)". Ma la sinifia intendeda es "otras ia deveni la sustituas per la pigmeos" = "otras ia sustitui per la pigmeos" o simple "otras ia sustitui". Simon
    • Per esplica en otra modo: "Replace" en engles funsiona diferente de "sustitui" en elefen. "Sustitui" sinifia "become the replacement (for)" o (si on ajunta un ojeto) "cause (the object) to become the replacement (for)". La ojeto es la cosa nova, ma en engles (e cisa es espaniol, me no sabe) la ojeto es la cosa vea: "I replace the broken panel with a new one" = "me sustitui un panel nova per la vea". That's just the way it is! Simon
  • Per me como parlor de espaniol, fa ave la tradui de hacer, cual en engles ave du (make e do) por esta me ia tradui tal. --Chabi (talk) 19:08, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
    • Ance per me como parlor de esperanto, "fari" sinifa e "make" e "do". Ma esta es elefen, no espaniol e no esperanto! La disionario dise, su "fa": "No usa 'fa' per dise 'crea' o 'fabrica'." Par esta, lo vole dise "no usa 'fa' per dise 'make'". Simon

Sur la state de la Vicipedia:

Your numbers are looking good. There are a couple of other projects ahead of you in queue, but I'll start nudging some people along. (It might not be until after Shabbat, but it will be shortly.)


Last thing to do Edit

Apparently the only probelme that we have now is that a lot of articles that we have are too small (they are call "stubs") and this prevents the Wikipedia to be approved. I would like to ask for your help to increase the quality of those articles (i.e. add more information). I've been creating a list to know which articles are. Please find them here.

Apparently, for an article not to be considered a "stub" should have more than 250 words. On Wikipedi it is stated that:

Over the years, different editors have followed different rules of thumb to help them decide when an article is likely to be a stub. Editors may decide that an article with more than ten sentences is too big to be a stub, or that the threshold for another article may be 250 words. Others follow the Did you know? standard of 1,500 characters in the main text. AutoWikiBrowser is frequently set to automatically remove stub tags from any article with more than 500 words.

We've been six months with this already, let's make a last effort. --Chabi (talk) 19:52, July 20, 2017 (UTC)

  • Could you clarify the task? You say that the stub limit is 250 words, but then you give other conflicting information. And do we have to improve all of the stubs before we get approved? Simon

Follow what is said in here:

Over the years, different editors have followed different rules of thumb to help them decide when an article is likely to be a stub. Editors may decide that an article with more than ten sentences is too big to be a stub, or that the threshold for another article may be 250 words. Others follow the Did you know? standard of 1,500 characters in the main text. AutoWikiBrowser is frequently set to automatically remove stub tags from any article with more than 500 words.

It is not that all have to be improved, but a majority of them should. I will try to add more information myself to most of them but I cannot do it all by my own. --Chabi (talk) 21:09, July 20, 2017 (UTC)

  • The italic paragraph gives conflicting information. Is 250 words enough, or do we need 500, or 1500 characters, or 10 sentences? The difference between 250 and 500 words is substantial, and I don't want to waste my practically non-existent free time. I've just extended the ABBA article to 500 words, which took me 25 minutes. Multiply that by the number of items in your list, and we're looking at over 700 hours' work! Simon
  • If it is too much time, just make them of 250 words. Just make sure it has more than three sentences. I'll be doing most of them myself, but a bit of help would be great. --Chabi (talk) 08:18, July 21, 2017 (UTC)
  • I will help as much as I am able. I just extended the article on Africa este, I hope this length is sufficient. Angel

Pardona! Me espera ce me ta ave plu tempo per elefen, ma mea familia nesesa me. Angel

No problem. La familia es sempre plu importante. Chabi (talk) 15:46, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

Progress Edit

The administrators are commenting on the progress of our Wikipedia.

The stub thing is something I am very aware of. When the Wp/lfn community imported the pages from the LFN wiki, it became apparent that the quality was "rather low" to put it softly. After I raised this issue, the community has started improving the quality of the pages by expanding them or deleting them. So, I think this is very important to be noted, also by the LangCom. --OWTB (talk) 13:19, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
User:Katxis has been very focused on this issue; we discuss it here, at Ladino Wikipedia, and on email. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:52, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Update with Wikipedia tests

This is now complete. Why this totals to 1009, while there are only 1004 in "All test wikis" I'm not quite sure. But I did this manually, so maybe I forgot to calculate something quite right. But I think this gives a good idea of what we have here now. I think that Wp/lfn is actually in very good shape, though we know that one or two people in LangCom may give it trouble as an auxiliary language.

Apparently we are improving very quickly. Could you please keep on adding information to the stubs on a daily basis, even if it is a small contribution it will look good to the Language Committee (the ones who approve the Wikipedia). I will try to do a massive improvement this weekend so that we get rid of all stubs. As it is said above, some members of the Committe may be a bit reluctant about our Wikipedia so let´s try not to give them a excuse not to approve it. --Chabi (talk) 21:10, July 27, 2017 (UTC)

Current situation Edit

Current situation is as follows:

  1. voting changes were approved.
  2. Wy/hi and Wb/ba are about a day or two away from approval, and Wt/hif is only about half a week behind.
  3. Your project (Wp/lfn) and Wp/gor are the next two we are going to take to LangCom.
  4. I just did a ten-page test, and found only one to be what I'd still really consider a stub: [1]. A couple of other pages (like Wp/lfn/England are pretty nearly stubs, but probably just good enough to be considered solid. On the whole, I'd venture you're probably ready for a review.

I suggest to try to improve mainly the stubs that are countries and to leave the others for later. As he suggests, I believe that by the end of next week we might being considered for approval so let's try to get this done. --Chabi (talk) 14:25, August 2, 2017 (UTC)

Current situation Edit

  • Script: All articles are written in Latin script. However, I would like to ask whether you want an script automatic transliteration tool like in the Serbian Wikipedia.
Vici serbsce

This is the bottom that has to be press in order to change automatically from one script to another.

  • We could do this, but I personally can't see any benefit in it. I've always found it strange that Elefen can officially be written in two different scripts: I don't see how this facilitates communication. We can presumably add it later if we wish. Perhaps we should see if the Wikipedia committee approves us first. Also, proper names and foreign words pose their own problems: it would be strange to transcribe "Carl Jung" as "Карл Жунг" and utterly ludicrous to transcribe "Chartres" as "Кхартрес". Simon
  • Approval: The Ingush Wikipedia is being reviewed now and our project and the Gorontalo Wikipedia will be next. I've been asked whether we have an academic expert who can verify lfn but isn't too entangled with the work on your project?

I answered that Jorj is the creator of the language so nobody better than him to verify the language quality. However, since he's the creator he may be considered biased, although he is also probably the best to affirm that the language is right. We'll see what LangCom asks for. --Chabi (talk) 07:41, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

  • Jorj is the only possible choice, given that I've done a lot of editing work. Simon

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